To me, clearly things are dieing here. I think what I am reading from the Colonel's post is that the KFBA will continue, but the boys have grown up, have other responsibilities and are no longer looking at this as a way to make money. I think that makes a lot of sense. However, to some extent this has meant the player base is now stagnant. Certainly the site has gone that way.
I did a look through all of the leagues. There are 12 leagues with 16 teams per; 192 teams overall. Unfortunately there are only 63 owners. Of the 63, there are probably 20 that really have a lot of teams and a few that have way too many teams (like me and Mrobinson.) I think this has to be addressed. The competition looks very similar in almost every league and that takes away some of the fun. To address that let me make some suggestions:
1 - Limit the amount of teams each owner can have (should be 3-5 in my opinion.) Let's do this ASAP and give everyone a chance to choose which 3-5 teams they want to keep.
2 - Try a couple of experimental leagues with different rules. I have heard requests for a no-keeper league and I have requested many times a franchise player league. There could be plenty of other variants that might be fun to try. We could allow participation in experimental leagues to not count towards the 3-5 team max.
3 - Have this be a membership only site that grows through referals. $30/year is about right. Credit a member with 1/2 off for each referee that buys a membership and give the referee a 50% discount as well. So, if I refer someone and they sign up both he and I get a 50% discount. KFBA loses nothing. If 2 referees join, my fee goes down to $7.50 and each of them gets their first year at $15. I think the point is that the more owners the better for KFBA financially and the better the competition resulting in more fun for all.
4 - I love the idea of the orignal OR and B-league with a relegation system. With 63 owners we are one owner shy of being able to fill 4 full leagues. We could either start 4 new leagues (Premier, First Division, Second Division, Third Division) or use the oldest four leagues and make owners choose which team they want to keep and only keep one. If we use new leagues use one of Brohams ranking methods to initially rank everyone 1-64 and place them in that way for year one.
Each year have a three up/three down relegation system. The winner of First division chooses which relegated team they want in OR. The third worst team in OR choses the promoted team they want in First division. This would give owners a reason to keep fighting until the end wether they are on top or bottom. When new members join KFBA, they would be put in a "fourth division" initially. If there are enough new members to create the league at the beginning of the season then they will play for promotion. If there are only say 6 new owners, the new owners will be promoted based on seniority (when they signed up).
This would be a great benefit to membership. A true, one team per owner system that crowns a true champion each year. It would also give people real motivation not to tank a team by getting rid of all stars for keepers. I think this would be a win-win-win.
Ultimately, I think with little effort, we could rejuvinate what is going on here. I think everyone could get excited about a new relegation/promotion system. We clearly need some contraction of regular leagues as well. The limit on owners would do that. We also need new blood and the referal system could do that. Let's move forward!
I think there are some good ideas here, especially the experimentation. I have to say that I'm not thrilled with the idea of giving up a half dozen teams I've spend hundreds of hours working to build up.
In particular, I have the defending champion B league team, with great keepers. Giving that up, because I'm already in the OR is not appealing. At all.
Mike
Hey Mike,
I hear you. Giving up teams will be hard for me to, but I think it will be better than having this thing die on the vine. I think it is very likely that we are close to folding several leagues anyway. I also think that for owners that don't have as many teams it must be a little frustrating to compete against people that are seasoned veterans in every league. We don't have to go all the way to 3 or 4 teams in one swoop either. We could limit it to a higher number this year and then a lower number the next. At the end of the day, I think it makes sense to limit owners to less than half of the leagues.
As for the relegation/promotion. I really love that idea, but I think it probably would be easier to start the leagues from scratch. That is why I was suggesting maybe doing a new Premier through third division.
Anyway...any KFBA royalty want to comment?
I love the idea of a continous relegation system. Pretty much agree with most of the other points as well....
Let's keep this site moving!
jcpeery:Hey Mike, I hear you. Giving up teams will be hard for me to, but I think it will be better than having this thing die on the vine. I think it is very likely that we are close to folding several leagues anyway. I also think that for owners that don't have as many teams it must be a little frustrating to compete against people that are seasoned veterans in every league. We don't have to go all the way to 3 or 4 teams in one swoop either. We could limit it to a higher number this year and then a lower number the next. At the end of the day, I think it makes sense to limit owners to less than half of the leagues. As for the relegation/promotion. I really love that idea, but I think it probably would be easier to start the leagues from scratch. That is why I was suggesting maybe doing a new Premier through third division. Anyway...any KFBA royalty want to comment?
The thing is, in general, the most active owners are the ones who have lots of teams. There are active people with one or two teams, but I don't think anyone with five or more, say, fails to respond to trades (well, Broham ignored a couple last summer, but I'll let that pass).
The key to me is that I've always managed teams for the long run, usually even when making a championship push I kept "next year" in mind. Obviously, if there aren't enough owners, a league can't run, but I don't like the idea of having to drop something I've managed for the long run in the middle, it seems to set a bad precedent.
I like the relegation idea, and having some leagues not full of experts - as a potential new player (actually returning from a one year layoff), it is unappealing to have to join a league by taking on the crummiest team with no good keepers and try to compete against your expertly assembled teams. I too find it a turnoff to find guys playing in every league - with some of the one-sided trades I have seen that lead to championships, I have wondered whether guys playing in many leagues swap one-sided trades in two leagues. It would be great to have leagues for the newbies that have a few of the good players who have been relegated because they traded away too much - but of course that assumes that they can't just drop their lousy teams and keep the good ones.
I suggest that players who want lots of teams should pay full price for every league they join - also, I wouldn't object to a requirement that everyone sign up in that league for the following year before they are allowed to trade picks for the next year. You could also permit memberships that allow multiple leagues, but with the Colonel or an administrator deciding which freebee teams you get - something like that is still needed to fill up keeper leagues where the poorest teams have dropped out.
PS - I am having difficulty figuring out how to pay you now that the old web-site is gone - would like to join up ASAP so can take part in the summer trades. I will be one of those rare guys who just wants to play in only one league (I am a hockey nut). Any suggestions for a good league to join? I compete (several second place finishes) and am active (although I reserve the right not to respond to particularly ridiculous trade offers).
Good to see you, Jim! Interesting suggestions... We'll see what can be done for people wanting an easier going league... One possibility mentioned recently is having a new league that is NOT a keeper league... Would you have interest in that?
Oh, and I read through all the comments on this thread again... Thanks for the continued support, everyone! I agree that we should limit the number of teams owned... Half the Association sounds like a reasonable start... Broham & I will go through the Leagues and see how they stand...
I'm also hoping to get the draft boards together this weekend... I'd like to get them up by next week - which will give us a chance for a July mock draft...
Actually, the keeper part is the best part of the KFBA - I don't think anyone would want to be in a non-keeper league. People who want to play non-keeper almost certainly would choose one of your higher tech competitors. Your best place to recruit is among keeper leagues that don't work - ie, the operator is unable to fill the leagues because too many people have dropped out. I don't really want an easier going league, just one where the players don't give away the league for dubious keepers - it would help if all trade offers were visible to all teams - then anyone attempting to fleece a newbie could be exposed to trash talk and shamed out of it, or there could be proper bidding wars for the best keepers.
However, I think if you go to a relegation system, the lowest level league you get relegated to should be a new keeper league (drafting from scratch) - this might be the best one for new players to join - and you could give any new players a free second team - one that none of the regular players want.
You'll have fun limiting the number of teams, though. If you let everyone keep their best teams and drop their worst, every league will be short teams,and only the worst teams will be available. Maybe something like, let each player pick one team and a reserve team, then try to consolidate the leagues. Then let the good teams whose leagues are dropped keep their reserve and their best team in the leagues remaining. Let KFBA assign the third team to players by draw to fill up the leagues. Encourage your regulars to give their second best team to a friend to get them into the KFBA, and keep one of their worst teams instead. Anyone given a team to enter could also play in any new league you can start up for the newbies.
I
giantjim:Actually, the keeper part is the best part of the KFBA - I don't think anyone would want to be in a non-keeper league. People who want to play non-keeper almost certainly would choose one of your higher tech competitors. Your best place to recruit is among keeper leagues that don't work - ie, the operator is unable to fill the leagues because too many people have dropped out. I don't really want an easier going league, just one where the players don't give away the league for dubious keepers - it would help if all trade offers were visible to all teams - then anyone attempting to fleece a newbie could be exposed to trash talk and shamed out of it, or there could be proper bidding wars for the best keepers.
Giving away stars for "dubious keepers" is how most of us got "stacked teams." Of course, Skye, which is reasonably "stacked" won the league last year. So, maybe I did something right. Somehow, I don't think much of the suggestion that working hard to build a long term success is a bad thing. I joined several leagues with little to work with, and drafted, traded, and gambled my way to success, to one degree or another. Others have done the same thing, sometimes more dramatically.
I thought last year had a lot less stars-for-bad-keepers trading... In many leagues, I held out trying to get top notch keepers for my stars - and in most leagues I couldn't get a reasonable deal made... Instead of giving away my stars for nobodies, I held onto them and played out the season...
any ideas on when the KFBA management will decide which leagues will be continued or not. the season is fast approaching, summer leagues running, and a mock draft on the horizon. Buckeyes camp is very much ready to get rolling
osupatrick:any ideas on when the KFBA management will decide which leagues will be continued or not. the season is fast approaching, summer leagues running, and a mock draft on the horizon. Buckeyes camp is very much ready to get rolling
If they turn trading on, you and I can start dealing. Might get a few others involved, and help get a feel for where the activity is.